Curse

Glaax · Jul 18, 2009, 01:23 PM // 13:23

There's a Dervish avatar for each God (dwayna, grenth, balth, lyssa and melandru) except for the God of secrets, Kormir, or in the past Abaddon.

So, if there are really 6 Gods, then shouldn't there be 6 avatars? Do you think that there was, or should of been/should be an Avatar of Abaddon since he was after all a God in the past, or maybe even an Avatar of Kormir. Or maybe just 1 avatar of 'secrets'?

I think it would be pretty cool if maybe margonite dervishes atleast had an Avatar of Abaddon, not sure if it would make sense being player-usable but an Avatar of Kormir wouldn't be too against the lore.

Also, what would it look like? There's not much creativity you can have when modelling an avatar after a completely human-formed God...except for Abaddon's possible avatar.

And what kind of bonuses would it have too, if it should even exist?

Edit::
Heh, after rethinking thanks to suggestions yeah I think avatar of kormir if it did exist would probably have to be available only in gw2 gamewise, but the question still remains about it being purely LOREwise, should there of been an avatar for abaddon, should there logically be a new avatar for kormir?

KoKoS · Jul 18, 2009, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Abaddon doesn't rly exist, since we killed him..

and a dervish, a holy warrior wouldn't take the form of an evil god..

now about kormir, it's a different story, but still, i wouln't use it coz i h8 kormir ^^

Aeon221 · Jul 18, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

A) It could be called Avatar of Secrets

B) Kormir isn't really a God. You can tell by the lack of shrines, lore, or interest in her. Her movin' on up was just a goofy non sequitur that Anet will hopefully never refer to again.

I mean, really, God of Secrets? She's right up there with the Gods of Gossip and Hangovers.

TheodenKing · Jul 18, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

B) Kormir isn't really a God. You can tell by the lack of shrines, lore, or interest in her.

She has a shrine in Chantry of Secrets. Though I recommend if you want to give her an avatar, you'd want to name it "Avatar of Spoilers," and the avatar would have to miss with all attacks 50% of the time.

FoxBat · Jul 18, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Isn't it perfectly appropriate that most people don't even know that the God of Secrets exists?

The 8th · Jul 18, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Isn't it perfectly appropriate that most people don't even know that the God of Secrets exists?

That's more or less the gist of it. The dervishes powers, including the ability to become an avatar, supposedly come from worship of the gods. If you don't know a god exists, you can't worship it, and can't channel it's power.

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jul 18, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Even before Abaddon's death, the 5 gods removed all mention of him. So, to have a dervish worshiping such an extremely obscure god wouldn't make sense.

xanarot · Jul 18, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Go play the game, you'll find out the why and what soon enough.. but the short version:

The 5 gods banish abaddon, including everything belonging to him like his troops, so he basicly no longer excists. Hence, like there not being an avatar, one also never comes across a statue or other notes arround abaddon.

After the game there are 6 gods again, when kormir takes his place. However, this is after the game, while with our continued play we kinda keep travelling back into the past (mobs, treasure, etc is always restored like you havent been there) making it impossible for any new kormir followers to appear in our timeline.

Bob Slydell · Jul 18, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

If I'm not mistaken the avatars are of gods that don't physically exist anymore. Abbadon and Kormir were living creatures on the earth at the time, they didn't need "Avatars" to represent them.

Evil Eye · Jul 18, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

Even before Abaddon's death, the 5 gods removed all mention of him. So, to have a dervish worshiping such an extremely obscure god wouldn't make sense.

How did Varesh find out about him?

Aka Devilince · Jul 18, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

Even before Abaddon's death, the 5 gods removed all mention of him. So, to have a dervish worshiping such an extremely obscure god wouldn't make sense.

<.< But there was a dervish worshipping him. >.>;;; Varesh. Why do people always forget about the Crazy Varesh.

SpyderArachnid · Jul 18, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Another thing as well, in order to get all the avatar elite forms, you had to kill those avatars.

Would it make sense to kill Kormir just to get her form? Completely off the storyline. And also, since Kormir isn't a god till the end of the game, you wouldn't even be able to get the form till then anyways, and as stated already, you'd have to kill her to get it like you did with the other ones, which again, wouldn't make any sense with the storyline.

Unless of course, they changed the storyline and made it to where Kormir got so overcome with her power, that she eventually became evil with all of abaddon's power and she became the new threat to Elona. :P

Edit: Btw, you should probably put *possible spoiler* in your thread seeing as most the posts here tell you the end of Nightfall. Don't want new players reading this and have the ending spoiled for them.

Gmr Leon · Jul 18, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanarot

Hence, like there not being an avatar, one also never comes across a statue or other notes arround abaddon.

Aside from this part, you were actually rather accurate. I can note at least three walls with markings related to Abaddon, and three statue heads of Abaddon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Eye

How did Varesh find out about him?

Her General, Kahyet. How Kahyet found out is still unknown, but it could have been any variety of things from the dreams which became rampant whenever Nightfall was coming closer, to her being a demon in disguise, to a demon somehow communicating with her. Many, many, methods to her becoming aware of Abaddon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aka Devilince

<.< But there was a dervish worshipping him. >.>;;; Varesh. Why do people always forget about the Crazy Varesh.

Probably because she flips from Dervish to Paragon so quickly that people don't even give a care what profession she was, so long as they kill her. That, and the whole sudden-switch maneuver makes one wonder what profession she's supposed to be anyway.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Another thing as well, in order to get all the avatar elite forms, you had to kill those avatars.

Would it make sense to kill Kormir just to get her form? Completely off the storyline. And also, since Kormir isn't a god till the end of the game, you wouldn't even be able to get the form till then anyways, and as stated already, you'd have to kill her to get it like you did with the other ones, which again, wouldn't make any sense with the storyline.

Er..Have you ever played a Dervish? The bosses you kill to get the Dervish Avatar skills are Acolytes not Avatars. Not to mention an Avatar isn't the God or Goddess him or herself, but rather a messenger of that God or Goddess.

SpyderArachnid · Jul 18, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Er..Have you ever played a Dervish? The bosses you kill to get the Dervish Avatar skills are Acolytes not Avatars. Not to mention an Avatar isn't the God or Goddess him or herself, but rather a messenger of that God or Goddess.

Yeah probably should of changed that :P

But as Kormir being a god now, and the ex-leader(or leader) of the sunspears, her avatar would end up being a Sunspear. Just likely thinking. So if you are working for the Sunspears, what sense would it make to kill a Sunspear Avatar?

Like you said, a Messenger. So a Messenger of Kormir, would be a Sunspear. Or even maybe a Whisperer. So with that, why would you kill one of them when you've been working for them the whole time?

Shaydow · Jul 18, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Her General, Kahyet. How Kahyet found out is still unknown, but it could have been any variety of things from the dreams which became rampant whenever Nightfall was coming closer, to her being a demon in disguise, to a demon somehow communicating with her. Many, many, methods to her becoming aware of Abaddon.

Probably because she flips from Dervish to Paragon so quickly that people don't even give a care what profession she was, so long as they kill her. That, and the whole sudden-switch maneuver makes one wonder what profession she's supposed to be anyway.

Edit:

Er..Have you ever played a Dervish? The bosses you kill to get the Dervish Avatar skills are Acolytes not Avatars. Not to mention an Avatar isn't the God or Goddess him or herself, but rather a messenger of that God or Goddess.

During my first run thourgh NF, I always assumed Kahyet was a servant of Abbadon just like the fortune teller in Factions was. I just assumed this was correct, I didnt think no one knew for sure. Seems right to me.

Back on topic, an Avatar of Secrets actually isint THAT far fetched, and you can KINDA make it anything you want, even say early to mid game ta boot, becuase, you know, it is, afterall, I dunno, an Avatar of SECRETS

Just a "heh" thought.

*edit* and by far fetched, I mean, it wouldn t be that full of spoilers, it wouldnt be any spoiler at all.

*edit*
I thought I would just point out that yes, I am in fact, a dumb dumb.

What would the Form of Secrets be?

Ya, thank you once again Captain Logic :/

svetcab · Jul 18, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Technically you wouldn't have to spoil the plot if the elite skill could only be capped in the domain of Anguish elite are so therefore you would already know the story. Also it would make more sense for it to be the Avatar of Kormir since she does become a god, not the god of secrets but the goddess of truth. I think it would make sense for Margonite's to have a avatar or Abbadon or even Varesh's first form having the skill. But for players it would have to be Kormir.

jayson · Jul 18, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I'm guessing that the Margonites looked pretty much like the Elonians before Abaddon changed them. I think it could also be safe to say that not every Margonite chose to follow Abbadon and easily blended in with the rest of Elonian society. Abaddon may have had his monuments erased but it would be fairly easy to keep his name and who he was circulating through the populations. It's not exactly like the 5 gods cleaned up their mess well anyway. I mean an entire sea drying up, the ghosts who live there who probably witnessed Abaddon, the desolation, Abbadons Armor floating around, Vareshes painting of Abbadon in Gandara and in other places... all of these things make it fairly easy to learn of the existence of this secret god. So dervishes worshipping him and having an avatar could actually be quite a possibility.

Ratson Itamar · Jul 18, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanarot

After the game there are 6 gods again, when kormir takes his place. However, this is after the game, while with our continued play we kinda keep travelling back into the past (mobs, treasure, etc is always restored like you havent been there) making it impossible for any new kormir followers to appear in our timeline.

To put it bluntly you, and everyone who agreed with you is wrong. There could still be a referential skill introduced in EoTN which occurred after nightfall. Of course that there're no elites, so an avatar is out of the question but a non-elite could still have made an appearance but Anet chose not to or just didn't think about it.

Kormir is a god just like any of the other five. Again, I do not know why Anet chose not to introduce "Kormir Shrines" in EoTN. A possible excuse is that she haven't gathered a respectful amount of followers yet, but I will go with Anet being lazy. Lore wise.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 18, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

B) Kormir isn't really a God. You can tell by the lack of shrines, lore, or interest in her. Her movin' on up was just a goofy non sequitur that Anet will hopefully never refer to again.

She is a god, she lacks all of that because she's a new god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Kormir is a god just like any of the other five. Again, I do not know why Anet chose not to introduce "Kormir Shrines" in EoTN. A possible excuse is that she haven't gathered a respectful amount of followers yet, but I will go with Anet being lazy. Lore wise.

Possibly because there are NO Statues of the gods in Eye of the North aside from ancient statues. The areas that we see in Eye of the North is all non-True God worshipping areas. The only locations of statues and murals of the gods is in some of the dungeons - which are all seemingly long abandoned, thus nothing of Kormir would be there.

To answer the OP:

The Dervish profession was created during the Shattered Dynasty, well after Dhuum and Abaddon's removal from the world. Kormir doesn't have an Avatar in Nightfall because until the end of Nightfall, she wasn't a god. She doesn't have an Avatar skill in Eye of the North because Eye of the North didn't introduce class-specific elite skills. The only location where lore on Kormir being a god even could have been added, it has technically. An Asuran knows of Kormir and Kiso mentions Kormir during the Dragon Festival. The only additional references to Kormir ascending into godhood would be the Shining Blade and Ebon Vanguard - the later has been cut off from the rest of humanity for the most part.

Oh, and people, Don't post suggestions in the lore forum. Thanks.

lewis91 · Jul 18, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

If there was an avatar of kormir, it would have to be available after the very last mission, so capable in DoA or something to stop spoilers.